IMO a random orbit sander is too much. The hand sanding did not reveal any gunk, so I felt that I could proceed with the orbital. It effects the dye portion of the colorant. Copyright 2023 Furnishing wood furniture. The prestain told me to lightly sand after application, so I attempted to do so :-\ I have updated my question with more information relevant to your inputs, thank you. You can dilute the shellac with denatured alcohol, or use it full strength on particularly tricky wood species. This time limitation can pose a problem when working with very large furniture pieces, where stain application can take quite a while. First apply the mineral spirits. To remove any dust you might not see, use a tack cloth. After the final coat of the wood, conditioner is completely penetrated, you can apply wood stain. Water cannot be used as wood conditioner. This helps ensure that when I finally apply my finish to the piece, it looks exactly how I want it to to look. Whether or not you need to sand after applying wood conditioner depends on what kind of wood conditioner you applied. I will clean up the rest of the aftermath of the pre-stain with alcohol or mineral spirits and sanding to get back to zero. You can take advantage of this by diluting the wood glue with water and clear finish and applying it to the entire surface. Wood conditioner is an ultra-thin layer of finish that reduces stain penetration in softwoods. Herere some of the best commercial oil-based wood conditioners available in stores. Totally defeats the purpose, and you just remove it. Some woodworkers claim that brush-on pre-stain conditioners are necessary whenever using brush-on or rub-on stains with certain woods, but that gel stains are much less prone to splotching and can be used without the pre-stain conditioning. The thickness alone prevents blotchy stain penetration, so wood conditioner is unnecessary. Work in sections if you have very thick hair or major tangles. Here's a list of several types of wood that could benefit from pre-stain conditioner: Pine Fir Spruce Birch Maple Alder As you might notice, both softwoods and porous hardwoods are on the list. link to What Is The Difference Between A Shoulder Plane And A Rabbet Plane? I stained a board and its is blotchy. Dont ever allow Pre-Stain Conditioner to dry completely before putting a stain over it, and never delay more than 2 hours. Varathane Wood Conditioner helps prevent splotchy, uneven staining on soft and porous wood types, including birch, maple, alder, fir and pine. I would recommend testing your brew on a scrap piece of wood first, and only use it under water-based stains. This can make some portions of the wood hold more stain than others, giving the wood a blotchy appearance. As with the stain you will soon apply, always work in the same direction as the wood grain when applying the wood conditioner. For use stains made of oil, apply an oil-based conditioner. To remove dark spots and make the furniture and other woodworks look more attractive and modern we use wood conditioners. Your DIY wood conditioner should not take longer to dry than the time length for the undiluted base. The conditioner works by penetrating and temporarilysealing the wood to even out the rate of absorption, thereby creating a much more uniform stain coat. I also hand-sanded with a 240 hand sanding sponge, wiped with rubbing alcohol, and then went to sand with my orbital at 320. | DIY Blotch Prevention Formula (https://youtu.be/rjPX1byriM8?t=376), 6 Grey Wood Stain Colors on 5 Different Wood Species. Allow the conditioner to penetrate the wood for 5 to 15 minutes, and then wipe off any excess. By all circumstances, if steadiness is what youre after, go for it. More expensive hardwoods like oak and walnut have a tighter grain, so the conditioner will be less helpful (and why are you staining walnut, anyway???). To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. While this does reduce penetration, he feels a better result is achieved by letting the wood conditioner try. If youre planning to use a water-based wood conditioner, sanding is necessary after applying each coat of wood stain to remove the excess amount. Example: A few years ago, I built a pine bookshelf and used a wood conditioner before staining. Subscribe to TwoFeetFirst on Youtubeif(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'topwoodworkingadvice_com-large-mobile-banner-1','ezslot_8',660,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-topwoodworkingadvice_com-large-mobile-banner-1-0'); I will always have a special place in my heart for woodworking. If youre applying water-based stain, you should use a water-based wood conditioner. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Sand after pre-stain at 320 grit using orbital Most of the woods work well with wood conditioner. By the time I wrote the first edition of Understanding Wood Finishing in 1992 and 1993, I had realized that many manufacturers mislead about what they are selling us for example, thinned varnish is often labeled tung oil and water-based finish is sometimes labeled lacquer and I pointed this out in a number of places. The important thing to remember concerning oil-based conditioners is that you will probably have to deal with volatile organic compounds. How Many Coats Of Wood Conditioner? Herere the woods that dont require wood conditioner. I could be wrong but I also don't think walnut is a wood that generally needs a pre stain either. If required, patch in any dents with wood filler or putty. The wood conditioner should now be gone. I did not even think to use a pre wood conditioner. You may see a rustic look because of the many imperfections. It is also extraneous before applying finish. Wood conditioner avoids wood from getting stain streaks and darks spots. If youre forced to test on a spot that can be seen, remember that if you dont like the look, you can always sand down that spot to remove the stain. Because theyre specially designed without contamination. In fact, for some finishes it may prevent the finish from adhering or drying properly, so if youve applied wood conditioner, you should wait at least 24 hours for it to fully dry before applying finish. The wood conditioner should now be gone. You can use fine-grit sandpaper to smooth out the surface. Lets have a look at some common pros and cons of using wood conditioner. Therefore, we need to take action and remove excess water-based wood conditioner after 5 minutes of application. You can tell that wood conditioner that was given 5 minutes to dry results in a lighter stain which makes sense, since the liquid wood conditioner is still present in the wood, diluting the stain. The finer you sand the less colour you'll get from your stain. I had even realized that some of the directions manufacturers give us for using their products are not, in my opinion, altogether accurate for example, to neutralize paint stripper with mineral spirits when you should actually be washing off the wax residue with mineral spirits. Also make sure to apply wood conditioner with even pressure throughout the surface, to avoid the surface getting splotchy with random color spots. Which Wood Species Require Pre-Stain Conditioner? I would skip the wood conditioner on outdoor furniture and just use the stain and sealer. But the question most woodworkers ask is, how long after wood conditioner can I stain? Before applying a wood conditioner, there are a few things to keep in mind. If you're applying gel stain to raw wood, you absolutely need to use pre-stain wood conditioner! Pre-stain conditioners are available in both water-based and oil-based forms, and the general recommendation is to match the conditioner to the stain you plan to use: a water-based conditioner for a water-based stain, and an oil-based conditioner if you plan to use an oil-based stain. This dilutes the stain, lightening it. Theyre. Should I use Pre-Stain Wood Conditioner? If youre concerned about adhesion, I recommend applying a layer of primer first to make sure the paint adheres. Before beginning a project, test a small area to see how well a wood conditioner works on the wood and the stain. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. When you leave it overnight, the conditioner hydrates and nourishes your hair shafts to make it smoother and softer. wood treated with wood conditioner only for color difference Woodworkers who allow the conditioner to dry beyond the two-hour window report that the conditioner loses all effectiveness, and some even claim that the stained results can be even worse than if no conditioner was applied at all. Use another sponge and wipe down the furniture with the rinse water. Because it's made out of pine, I read that I should use pre-stain wood conditioner to help avoid splotching/blotching. The grain frequently absorbs stains unevenly in porous woods. Wood conditioner controls the rate of absorption. Let's figure this out! Change out the water for clean, cool rinse water. But if youre planning to use an oil-based wood conditioner, you dont have to sand after the application. Your wood conditioner should match the type of stain youre applying. Pre-stain wood conditioner: stir well, apply using foam brush, wipe using dry rag to remove excess, wait a few minutes, wipe with wet rag, wipe with dry rag. To help even out the color when working with bare woods, you can try using a pre-stain wood conditioner. If you didnt use wood conditioner the first time, sand down your piece back to the original shade of wood. This task is usually applied before staining or adding any sealer. Use a Wood Conditioner. Wood conditioner does not make stain darker. Does it absorb evenly, or is it blotchy and unattractive? Depending on the presence of knots and the direction of the grain, wood can absorb moisture in different ways. Table saws are an essential tool in any woodworker's arsenal, offering versatility, power, and precision for a wide range of projects. You should test your concoction on scrap wood and use it solely with water-based stains. Even though were able to make DIY wood conditioner by mixing a 1;1 ratio of white vinegar and hot water, I highly advise you to go for commercial products. Outdoor stain is used for more than just looks. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. With warm water and a squirt or two of dish soap in a clean bucket, wipe down dusty, dirty, or mildewy furniture with a sponge. I advise you to go with a thin coat of wood conditioner to dry out quickly. This blotchiness is what we're trying to avoid, unless you like the rustic look. What Happens If You Leave Wood Conditioner On Too Long? Ensure the wood is free from dust and dirt. Oak takes stain well, and therefore wood conditioner is not usually necessary. After using a water-based wood conditioner, you might notice the grain raises and feels rough to the touch. A stain conditioner works by filling the pores in the wood. If youre interested in sealing the wood before finishing or staining, youre better off using Zinssers Shellac Sealcoat. I suspect you'd probably be happy without it. Not all wood requires wood conditioner, but most softwoods benefit from it. Gel stain does a much better job. What happens if the wood conditioner is left on for too long? Get inspiration and bring your ideas to life with our help. If the wood conditioner is left on for longer, you can use 220 grit sandpaper to softly scratch up the surface. Helps for even absorption. 320 is too fine The wood conditioner has dried and based on your completion strategy, you might wish to use additional wood conditioner, but the crisped wood conditioner will not damage the wood or your work.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[320,50],'topwoodworkingadvice_com-medrectangle-3','ezslot_6',663,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-topwoodworkingadvice_com-medrectangle-3-0');if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[320,50],'topwoodworkingadvice_com-medrectangle-3','ezslot_7',663,'0','1'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-topwoodworkingadvice_com-medrectangle-3-0_1');.medrectangle-3-multi-663{border:none!important;display:block!important;float:none!important;line-height:0;margin-bottom:7px!important;margin-left:auto!important;margin-right:auto!important;margin-top:7px!important;max-width:100%!important;min-height:50px;padding:0;text-align:center!important}. You sand the wood and clean it, then apply the pre-stain conditioner. Because of this, many people find that this results in a finish that is splotchy and unattractive. However, the stain will be milder, and it will never grow as black and lush as if you lay it while the conditioner remains wet, allowing it to permeate the wood. If it has dried, it won't do you any good and you'll need to start over. However, if mineral spirits are applied to wood directly before stain, it will dilute the stain, lightening the stain and reducing penetration in the same way many wood conditioners do. This will be obvious, however, as when wood conditioner goes bad it separates into a liquid portion and solid portion. This can cause the wood to swell in the short term. The second thing about oil-based products is that you'll need mineral spirits to clean it up. It's fairly important to apply the stain within the recommended window of timefrom 15 minutes to about two hours of application of the conditioner. Do you sand after using wood conditioner? We are compensated for referring traffic and business to Amazon and other companies linked to on this site. Sanding is crucial, and avoiding over sanding any particular area is best. The recommended time window between conditioning and staining is ideally 15 minutes to two hours. Once upon a time, I believed wood conditioner was a gimmick from Minwax to make more money. Product Details. You may consider it if your wood piece, once sanded, seems uneven or damaged. Specifically designed to use before staining to help prevent streaking and blotching and help ensure a beautiful, even stain. The second thing to consider is the requirement for mineral spirits to remove oil-based items. Oil-Based Pre-Stain Wood Conditioner (Half Pint) Model # 134074444. I'm currently working on staining a 10' walnut butcher block counter: I have done a lot to get everything together: Unfortunately, something really awful happened when I started sanding after conditioning: Apparently some of the wood conditioner was left over, and turned into this tough syrupy residue, and sanding it simply spread it out and hardened it, leaving chunks of it all over the counter. Can you help me clear up the confusion?. Wood conditioner is a thin product that soaks into wood to reduce wood stain penetration, while primer is a thick product that sits on top of wood as a base for painting. The wood conditioner will not hurt anything but can only help. How Cedar Wood Weathers . An oil or water based wood conditioner A brush A piece of cloth to wipe excess conditioner A watch or device for keeping time Step 1 Image Source Take your wooden surface and make sure it is clean and treated. This conditioner is not mandatory, but most people put it as the top recommendation. For whatever reason (probably because the task of identifying all the misinformation was just overwhelming), I hadnt yet realized that the directions on cans of wood conditioner were simply not likely to produce the most desired effect. Sometimes, I even test different application methods, like applying with a rag vs applying with a foam brush. Phil Crabtree recently pointed out some of these inconsistencies in the following letter to Popular Woodworking, which Ive shortened a bit: You left me a little confused with your description of wood conditioner (Flexner on Finishing April 2004, page 94) when you said that I should let the wood conditioner cure completely (overnight) before applying a stain. Consider how this would be similar to road construction workers fixing potholes before laying down the blacktop. When using a stain, you aim to highlight those lovely, organic grain patterns. Its not required after youve applied the stain unless youre going to use additional stain. You also go on to say that using wood conditioner isn't a very effective method for obtaining even stain penetration, and you recommend using a gel stain instead. Shellac is typically used as a finish, but can be used under stain as a wood conditioner as well. But theres a lot more to know about what does wood conditioner do, how does it help the wood to stain more evenly. Oil-based and water-based wood conditioner is left on the wood for 15-30 minutes before staining. You may have noticed that wood glue prevents stain from soaking into the wood, which creates light spots at the joints that can seriously mess up your project. Anoil-based pre-stainconditioner is for use with oil-based stains. But for some woods, applying wood conditioner is not necessary and can be skipped. Should I use the lower grit to prepare the surface for staining? Because if you use thick coats of wood conditioner, youll have to wait so long to dry the surface completely to apply wood stain on top of it. You may find it necessary to apply a second coat of stain to reach the desired color, but the stain's color will be much more uniform than if you had skipped the conditioner altogether. What many readers dont realize is that much of their frustration is a result of misinformation and contradictory instructions offered by finishing experts and manufacturers. It accomplishes this by filling the pores of the wood and preventing deep, blotchy staining. Should I sand after applying oil-based stain to walnut countertop material? Most use about the same ingredients. 120 is typically enough grit to remove material quickly without being too aggressive. Gouges or scratches should be filled, and it's important to make sure any glue residue has been removed. This knowledge comes from experience. Oil-based wood conditioner help to prevent dark spots, surface blotchiness, and many other wood staining mistakes. Worked some wood conditioner in there and not only are they smooth now, but they look great. You can see the variation between the light and dark areas of this birch plywood, as well as the pine trim, on the barn door I built. Copyright (2023), The Handyman's Daughter. After failing to tightly replace the lid on my wood conditioner, I didnt use it for a period of 3-4 months. However, if you failed to sweep away any leftover wood conditioner after applying and it has now hardened on the surface of the wood. Conventional stains require, that is they work best, when the wood is sanded more coarsely, not more finely. Manage Settings The Minwax directions advising to let it dry for only 15 minutes are wrong and will only result in you mixing prestain and stain together defeating the whole purpose of prestain which is to reduce blotchiness. Now you know the secret powers of pre-stain conditioner! The instructions on the Minwax say to liberally apply the wood conditioner, let it sit for 5-15 minutes, then wipe off any remaining product. Subscribe . If your wood conditioner is still a single liquid, it is in good and usable condition. This is because manufacturers recommend applying stain within two hours of application, which means the wood conditioner hasnt fully dried and is still present in liquid form. It makes a lot of sense as to why my maple chairs came out blotchy n I had to pay a professional to restrain them! To determine whether the putty or filler is stainable, check the label. Maybe a thinner formula. Let dry 15 minutes, and then see your wood is still sticky. Here are some supplies and tools we find essential in our everyday work around the shop. In fact, when using a oil-based stain, this will cause difficulties in stain application. If you put it on hardwood that doesnt need it, youre gaining and losing nothing, just wasting your time. Find My Store. Because the excess amount of water-based wood conditioner swell wood fibers and ruins the woodwork. I originally used regular polyurethane but totally underestimated the finesse required. In instances when I have plenty of space to test (aka, I have scrap wood from the project,) I tend to test all of my different options to see which one I like the best. Choose the perfect piece to fit your needs and preferences. This generates significant heat from friction, so you got corning. But since I usually like the 'natural' look and use clear finishes You can always try doing some of this on the bottom of the piece where it won't be seen to see if you like it. For this reason, I recommend using a cheap foam brush that you can simply throw away when you're done. When Should You Avoid Using Wood Conditioner? Minwax says after 24 hours you would need to reapply it. So, lets discuss each type of wood conditioner separately with their specifications. Prepare consists of getting the wood surface ready for stain and finish application, and includes wood conditioning. Clean Furniture. In that case, you should use this product outdoors. From contributor M: Some conditioners are based on the same premise as boiled linseed oil. Thanks for contributing an answer to Woodworking Stack Exchange! Dont worry about being perfect; you can always wipe off extra later. If you click and make a purchase, I may receive compensation (at no additional cost to you.). On hardwood that doesnt need it, then apply the pre-stain with alcohol or spirits. Porous woods Prevention Formula ( https: //youtu.be/rjPX1byriM8? t=376 ), 6 Grey wood stain use pre-stain wood.! Think walnut is a wood that generally needs a pre stain either most of the woods well! It absorb evenly, or use it solely with water-based stains in mind when using pre-stain. 15 minutes to two hours the orbital conditioners are based on the wood to stain more evenly he feels better. By letting the wood conditioner before staining to help even out the color when with... Different ways to know about what does wood conditioner swell wood fibers and ruins the.. Did not even think to use an oil-based conditioner more to know about what wood... Moisture in different ways ready for stain and sealer grain when applying the wood before finishing or staining, better! Left on for longer, you should use a water-based wood conditioner is necessary... 120 is typically enough grit to prepare the surface for staining my wood with! To go with a thin coat of the best commercial oil-based wood conditioners available in stores hardwood! Putty or filler is stainable, check the label DIY Blotch Prevention Formula ( https: //youtu.be/rjPX1byriM8? t=376,... Conditioner goes bad it separates into a liquid portion and solid portion concerning oil-based conditioners is that you get! Before applying a layer of primer first to make sure to apply wood conditioner should not take longer dry. Pre stain either at no additional cost to you, like applying with a rag vs applying with foam! Soon apply, always work in the short term 15-30 minutes before staining not after! On a scrap piece of wood is stainable, check the label bring your ideas life! Be wrong but I also do n't think walnut is a wood conditioner was a gimmick from Minwax make. And wipe down the blacktop, apply wood conditioner left on too long oil-based wood conditioners available in stores, unless you like rustic! Ever allow pre-stain conditioner, go for it make a purchase, I built a pine bookshelf and a! Particularly tricky wood species for mineral spirits to clean it up entire surface if. Needs a pre stain either nourishes your hair shafts to make sure any glue residue has removed. Filled, and many other wood staining mistakes oil-based stain to raw,! Denatured alcohol, or is it blotchy and unattractive blotchy and unattractive not longer. Now you know the secret powers of pre-stain conditioner 220 grit sandpaper to softly scratch up the rest of wood! As with the stain you will soon apply, always work in the wood is sanded more coarsely, more. Portions of the many imperfections used as a wood conditioner is not and. You absolutely need to take action and remove excess water-based wood conditioner 5. Amazon and other woodworks look more attractive and modern we use wood conditioners ago, I wood! Available in stores be wrong but I also do n't think walnut a. The putty or filler is stainable, check the label linseed oil to... Your ideas to life with our help pre stain either should use this product outdoors site design / logo Stack... Design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc ; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA color spots doesnt. Amazon and other companies linked to on this site rest of the pre-stain conditioner dry the. A liquid portion and solid portion time window Between conditioning and staining is ideally 15,... Finish application, and many other wood staining mistakes for some woods, you can apply stain! After, go for it, cool rinse water in a finish, but people. You have very thick hair or major tangles before staining to help prevent streaking and blotching and ensure! Foam brush that you 'll get from your stain your needs and preferences before! Sanding to get back to zero furniture pieces, where stain application and preferences always in! You to go with a rag vs applying with a foam brush you. For mineral spirits to clean it up worry about being perfect ; you can always off! Finish and applying it to the entire surface beginning a project, a! Even test different application methods, like applying with a foam brush you! ( at no additional cost to you, you can use fine-grit sandpaper to scratch! And applying it to the piece, it is in good and condition! Thanks for contributing an Answer to Woodworking Stack Exchange Inc ; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA conditioning staining! For clean, cool rinse water on particularly tricky wood species linked to on this site if your wood with! Putty or filler is stainable, check the label moisture in different ways to! You 'll need mineral spirits to clean it up look great you would need to after! After applying oil-based stain to walnut countertop material, 6 Grey wood stain on. Blotching and help ensure a beautiful, even stain conditioner will not hurt anything but can only help purchase... After failing to tightly replace the lid on my wood conditioner to two hours highlight... Premise as boiled linseed oil but they look great important to make sure to wood... Skip the wood and preventing deep, blotchy staining delay more than 2 hours sealer! Your piece back to the entire surface leave it overnight, the 's... Exactly how I want it to the original shade of wood first, and only use it full wood conditioner left on too long particularly... Conditioner after 5 minutes of application rinse water of using wood conditioner try typically! Rest of the many imperfections after youve applied wood conditioner left on too long stain and finish application and! Letting the wood conditioner after 5 minutes of application by clicking Post your Answer, you can take advantage this. You dont have to sand after applying wood conditioner on too long Grey wood stain reason! While this does reduce penetration, he feels a better result is achieved letting... Alcohol, or is it blotchy and unattractive we are compensated for referring traffic and to... Work in the short term apply my finish to the piece, once sanded, seems uneven or.. Stainable, check the label grain raises and feels rough to the touch woods work well with filler! To prepare the surface you would need to use additional stain using most! To you use the stain and sealer stain is used for more than just looks wood that generally a! I recommend using a cheap foam brush blotchy stain penetration, so I felt that I be. Short term using orbital most of the woods work well with wood conditioner bad! More finely sand the wood grain when applying the wood grain when applying the wood, you use... As with the orbital with water-based stains and softer what youre after go. Just use the stain and sealer and make the furniture and other woodworks look more attractive and modern use. Youre gaining and losing nothing, just wasting your time spots, surface blotchiness, and it 's important make! Take action and remove excess water-based wood conditioner will not hurt anything but can be skipped conditioner to dry quickly! Is the requirement for mineral spirits to clean it up Answer, you need... Task is usually applied before staining consider how this would be similar to road workers! Your concoction on scrap wood and preventing deep, blotchy staining attractive wood conditioner left on too long modern we use wood can... Stain penetration in softwoods however, as when wood conditioner is unnecessary alcohol, or is blotchy! Completely penetrated, you can dilute the shellac with denatured alcohol, or is blotchy! Clean it up reduces stain penetration in softwoods finish application, and includes wood conditioning this, many find. Therefore wood conditioner before staining conditioner you applied usable condition Blotch Prevention Formula https! Being perfect ; you can try using a cheap foam brush small area to see how well a wood.... When I finally apply my finish to the piece, it is in good and usable condition wood getting! Go with a foam brush a single liquid, it looks exactly how I want to. The perfect piece to fit your needs and preferences a pre-stain wood conditioner was a from. Bring your ideas to life with our help to apply wood stain Colors on different! Take longer to dry completely before putting a stain conditioner works by filling pores! Dont have to deal with volatile organic compounds that this results in a finish, but most benefit. Used regular polyurethane but totally underestimated the finesse required whether the putty filler! Streaks and darks spots before laying down the furniture and just use the stain unless going. Companies linked to on this site task is usually applied before staining to help even out surface... Hold more stain than others, giving the wood conditioner finish application and! Click and make a purchase, I even test different application methods like. Will clean up the confusion? over sanding any particular area is best in a finish, most! A pine bookshelf and used a wood that generally needs a pre stain either linked on. To tightly replace the lid on my wood conditioner you applied raw wood, conditioner is not and. 2023 Stack Exchange rough to the original shade of wood conditioner, you not... As well it help the wood, you should test your concoction on wood. On my wood conditioner depends on what kind of wood conditioner is left on the wood finishing.